Curse

generik · Jun 08, 2006, 11:32 AM // 11:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeowulfKamdas

/notsigned

ur all playing the wrong game if you really want this >:0

Even if you are a hardcore PvE player, I don't see why you would want to introduce this. The reason the game is designed this way is to promote balance is both PvE and PvP.

Bridging between PvE and PvP?

Let's look at facts shall we?

Only reason people play in Fort today, as in right now, is either because:
1) They just want to befriend the luxons FFS!
2) They want their nice l33t armor.
3) Hell, factions = gold!

For that reason sometimes you even get AFKers.

In fact I won't even go as far to say that most AFKers are gold farmers. I can get hell of a lot more farming elsewhere given the recent prices of those gems. At the very best you only net like 6-7K an hour doing fort. That is assuming you can get AMBER while scoring wins at the speed the Luxons can under ideal conditions (read: virtually impossible).

Most of the time you'd be just lucky to even get 3-4K worth of gems from Fort in any given hour.

Those who play in the alliance battles are probably players who are more attuned to PvP to start with, well that's fine and good for that matter, since this discussion isn't talking about them.

To further prove my point just look at Jade Quarry. Absolutely 0 battles there, all the time?

Why?

1) People has already done the befriending quest
2) Who cares!
3) Puny rewards anyway
4) It's PvP
5) PvP is for snobs

In fact the stark difference in user participation between these 2 areas can only prove one thing and one thing only. PvEers will probably PvP a little if there is some gain, but by and large you probably have to FORCE them to do it. Go to fort and any given day and see for yourself. Count the number of "Yay! 10K! Cya guys!" you see in local anyday.

I've proven my point. People don't want "balance". "Balance" is boring if it means PvE content has to suffer. "Balance" is boring if it means seeing the exact same mods day in day out. "Balance" is boring if it means the only difference between a 100K and 500 ectos sword and a 15K sword is purely the skin.

Then again all sorts of people play GW. Some retards are so superficial at that and others just see through the whole facade like it is a sheet of tracing paper. Let's just say I belong in the latter.

John Bloodstone · Jun 08, 2006, 04:52 PM // 16:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sagius Truthbarron

You forget the closed mindedness of most Guild Wars players (pvp fanatic and pve fanatic alike). If there is an item that makes certain skills for certain classes more useable, garunteed people will be spamming "group needs such and such spam necro! Must have the Red that makes it l33t!"

I don't think they would make them in a manner as to later require them for high end PvE at all, I just think it has to do with the closed mindedness of the player base.

I mean, if people wouln't accept you becuase a glowing deer head doesn't come out of your body, they aren't going to accept you when you don't have the Uber Pwn Stick.

I agree with you to a certain extent, but I think people will find a way to be elitist either with out without glowing emotes, weapons, armour etc...

Passing on a great idea because of people who like their little circles of "leet" players would be a mistake - people who don't fit their special criteria would be excluded regardless. Elitists should simply be ignored imo.

[edit: actually I think we are more on the same tracks than I first realised

]

Back on topic,
To be honest, I think the drawbacks to Reds should be enormous, all should have high req (maybe in more than one attribute line!) and they should have drawbacks like the following:

* Reduced energy
* Reduced hp
* Slower attack speed
* Reduced attribute points
* Penalties for not meeting the right condition (eg.-hp when not enchanted)
* hp/energy degen
* Reduced armour
* etc

If the penalties are strong enough, there will always be a market for greens because Reds would be much more specific and would not suit a majority of builds; for example, who wants to take a -5 energy hit if you don't directly benefit from the advantages of a weapon?, compare to a green with +5 energy, even if you can't directly use that energy it doesn't hurt you - Reds would be detrimental to those who used them with no regard to their specific build.

All hypothetical, but fun to think about

Evilsod · Jun 08, 2006, 05:04 PM // 17:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Bloodstone

* Reduced energy
* Reduced hp
* Slower attack speed
* Reduced attribute points
* Penalties for not meeting the right condition (eg.-hp when not enchanted)
* hp/energy degen
* Reduced armour
* etc

If the penalties are strong enough, there will always be a market for greens because Reds would be much more specific and would not suit a majority of builds; for example, who wants to take a -5 energy hit if you don't directly benefit from the advantages of a weapon?, compare to a green with +5 energy, even if you can't directly use that energy it doesn't hurt you - Reds would punish those who used them with no regard to their specific build.

All hypothetical, but fun tho think about

There will always be discrimination, its a fact. Tbh i don't care what the thing provides, half of those penalties would just make me never want to take it. Reduced armour is just suicidal, whatever mods it gives. Degen, nobody wants that beyond using a Vampiric weapon, penalities for not meeting the right condition would just suck, things like 'Below 50%' suck enough as it is, without losing things for not meeting it. Nobody wants slower attack speed, its just a fact, same goes for reduces attributes or negative health.

The problem is there are just no mods that could be balanced, increase the penalties? Nah wouldn't work. +15%/-5 is perfect, +25/-10? Overpowered completely.

If anything i'd of said these Reds could be an answer to asking for weapons for different attributes. A beastmaster or WS red? Don't make there req things that exist, make them truly unique.

Stockholm · Jun 08, 2006, 05:26 PM // 17:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Bloodstone

there will always be a market for greens because Reds would be much more specific and would not suit a majority of builds)

Greens are where they should be right now, they are more commen than "whites". I have given away most of mine to new players.

Reds should be specific but useble, and not like greens droped by specific bosses, they should be random droped(not chest drops) from all foes. That way you cant go and just farm them.

Fenrir Brightclaw · Jun 08, 2006, 05:50 PM // 17:50

Just make them end-game items you get from collectors, that they're customised when you get them, and that you need like 20 of the collectable items to trade it (think like the naga fangs needed for the Tengu mask).

KIDGOOCH · Jun 08, 2006, 07:12 PM // 19:12

I love this idea, and I think the DiabloII reference would work here too. Where if you add certain pieces together you can get certain types of bonuses. These bonuses could primary/secondary specific, for example.. a W/Ra can get a shield and axe of the same 'group' to recieve a Beast Mastery bonus and "perma-spell" while wielding both, such as 'Charm Animal' so you don't have to equip it on skill bar.

There could be unique items to be used by the primary class, with a bonus for the secondary class, thus making the secondary class more important. A secondary necro could get lvl1-3 soul reaping to add life and energy for primary, a secondary monk could get armor vs. physical ... and so on.

Also, make the items not to easy to get, one piece in Sorrows, one piece in UW, and the piece can only be obtained by a "non cookie cutter". If the piece is in Tombs, only a mesmer or warrior can get it.

There are many possibilities here, one character cannot obtain both pieces, a character cannot get a piece that he or she can wield (a warrior can't find the sword or shield). This would open up the trading for unique pieces in hopes of getting a set.

Again this would only be for PvE players...

I Brother Bloood I · Jun 08, 2006, 11:14 PM // 23:14

/Signed

This has got to be the best idea ive heard yet. Now this would put more play in pve plus even out pvp teams.

My extra idea to add to it would be to pick pvp weapons before u go into ur ra ha gvg u know w/e. U would use mods uve unlocked and be able to pick ur base mods.(nrg +5 15%^50 etc) Everything is about weapons and off hands in gw. Just think that there is a huge difference in casters with no staff or wand or w/e vs. someone with like brohns staff or ragos flame staff. 10-20 dmg sword vs. Sskai's sword and strongroots shelter.

U see if u forced pvp weapons on players it would make more even in pvp. Also the uber pve weapons would be harder to get and stuff. Now think of all the work u put into getting kanaxai's edge when u could go sell it make about 20 of the same sword... Now instead u put in red items for elite missions. After spending those 2-4 hours gettin to urgoz and shit u get an uber bow. Maybe somethin like.

Urgoz's Trappers Bow
15-15 Penetrating Dmg(Req 15. Wilderness Survival)
nrg +20 When there is 3 or more trabs in your skill bar
Wilderness survival +1(Chance 20%)
10% chance to not get interupted while trapping
If u are interupted when using a trap while wielding this bow
u are stuck in ur current place for 10 seconds

Woops forgot to say that these can only be obtained from elite missions. Also these missions would be harder than they are. Your groups would have to be super organized with much skill. Also i like the idea of customized when it drops because of the difficulty of the mission and the amount of money u would get.

Dragon of Mist · Jan 25, 2007, 10:14 PM // 22:14

I agree,

new rare weapons with higher quality for PVE is needed. True the greens where a bust... So many on the market with jacked up prices for same stats. As purple and golds. Plus they are hard to spot with henchies or hero's names also in green with Alt key. Maybe in Harder missions, or hear to reach area's maybe even from some of the FOW or UW chests.

With keys from FOW costing 1,5k It sucks to get a purple drop. Should get greens and rare items.

Need something to boost morale in PVE for us GW lifers.

/signed.

MithranArkanere · Jan 25, 2007, 10:39 PM // 22:39

This wn't unbalance the game, because you won't use it against othe players, ony against monsters, and they are already unbalanced against players, XD

And you can actually use low-and PvE equipment in PvP, ike req12 weapons or armor 8 shields.

So...? Why not to make all weapons 'perfect' in PvP'?

ca_aok · Jan 25, 2007, 11:01 PM // 23:01

/signed

Quote:

/signed on everything except the -50hp on the sword, the mage fist.. too powerful, come on +2 oneverything?? and the +50% health for pets on melandrus gift.

A 55 with 5 hp will die quick, as Im pretty sure the damage is rounded up to 1.
If you suggest using the -20 offhand or whatever, well, just put a req of 16str on the -50 attribute of the sword, and problem solved.

Wildi · Jan 25, 2007, 11:18 PM // 23:18

lets fix the stupid "zomg you want ueber items?" posts

Fire Staff
Cannot be used in pvp
11-22 req 16 fire magic
default boring mod 1
default boring mod 2
every time you cause burning you lose 5 hp
Fire attacks cause 1 second burning
Two-handed

this would be a good example because its not overpowered

/signed 100 times

awitelin · Jan 25, 2007, 11:33 PM // 23:33

I'd like to see some sort of reward for beating Prophecies, seeing that it is the longest PvE campaign yet gives the least benefits for completion... maybe some new crazy items could be fun. I think it's fair that PvPs don't want outrageously odd weapons, but there's no reason not to add strange, highly specified items (with enough drawbacks to be fairish) for those who've finished the PvE side of games.

lacasner · Jan 26, 2007, 12:52 AM // 00:52

Signed to the bajilionth power.

-.- · Jan 26, 2007, 01:39 AM // 01:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by ca_aok

/signed

A 55 with 5 hp will die quick, as Im pretty sure the damage is rounded up to 1.
If you suggest using the -20 offhand or whatever, well, just put a req of 16str on the -50 attribute of the sword, and problem solved.

Damage rounds down to zero with Protective Spirit on.

Bryant Again · Jan 26, 2007, 02:06 AM // 02:06

Wow, rezzed thread?

I actually had an idea like this in my head a long time ago. Pretty interesting idea, just as long as it's not used in PvP.

Avatar Exico · Jan 26, 2007, 02:13 AM // 02:13

Sweet Idea Man. It would make things more interesting

Teger · Jan 26, 2007, 02:25 AM // 02:25

/signed

I would like to see actual REASONS why say, that green (or in this case, red) item is actually better then a collector item...after all, I would think that a dragos longbow, being, you know, bigger then my ranger, wouldnt have the same effect as that puny little collector item...

LuckyGiant · Jan 26, 2007, 02:48 AM // 02:48

/Not-signed.

They gave fully customizable weapons with inscriptions, now upgrades for wands, shields and focus. You can make exactly what you want.
No ones going to want greens or golds if these new reds have an advantage, theres no point to them.

Nty, at least keep a bit of balance in PvE it's easy enough.

also:
+1 attribute weapons will free up 20 attribute points
+2 attribute weapons will free up 36 attribute points
+3 attribute weapons will free up 49 attribute points
...we don't need more solo builds thanks

Ilithis Mithilander · Mar 12, 2007, 11:50 PM // 23:50

/signed

the only balancing issue is in PvP and since it won't exist there, there is no reason to worry.

frickett · Mar 14, 2007, 05:07 PM // 17:07

/signed, no problem here,